Feedback Hub – Six Painful years later.

“If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?”

A much-debated question for decades.

In terms of Microsoft it’s, “If I submit something to the Feedback Hub, will Microsoft respond to me?”

This is easy to solve because it’s no.

I wrote about the top 5 most annoying issues with the feedback hub in 2015, and about its cousin app, The Insider App (Feedback Hub + Insider material) in 2016. We’re 5 years later and you’d hope things had improved, but alas it’s still the same problems. Thus, it’s time to limber up my finger muscles and vent again about why I feel the Feedback Hub is about as useful as writing your problem on a piece of paper and then throwing that paper in the recycling bin.

In many ways I’m wondering why Microsoft, and especially the Insider programme, bother with the Feedback Hub still. Just this year Microsoft began closing down its UserVoice communities - which one can understand because in many ways they were just webpage versions of the hapless Feedback App. There are also ways these days that Microsoft actually does user feedback much better! Yes, really. I’ll come to that in a bit.

First though, lets’ have a look once again at all that is wrong with the Feedback Hub; these issues have existed since it’s inception, so the usual response of “Oh, it’s new, it'll get better” no longer applies. In fact, to even think that anymore is just rude.

1. SLOW

It’s so slow searching and filtering through feedback that you’ve actually got more than enough time to reconsider your life and not bother submitting anything. The key to getting the public to engage and tell you what’s good or, more normally, what’s bad, is to make it simple and quick to give that feedback.

If you launch the Feedback App it’s a good 5+ seconds until you get to do anything, and then if you want to search to see if someone has posted about what you are “feeding back” before, the twirling ball of time appears like an omen of doom.  If that’s not bad enough, suppose you want to read the comments in any feedback post, it’s another 5+ seconds of hell until you see them.

It’s simply too slow.

2. SPAM

Something I’ve noticed in the last few years especially is that the Hub has become full of rubbish. I’m not referring to the problem of people submitting problems that aren’t problems, or giving suggestions for improvements that just are ludicrous, but literally posts and comments that are nothing short of spam. There are swear words, politics, and offensive matter lurking in the feedback hub. Comments for threads – which seemed like a very good idea at the time – on the whole add next to no value to any thread. The “I agree”, or “Fix it!” or “This is a stupid idea” really are like standing in the middle of a pavement and waiting for someone to take any notice of you.

Spam is a fantastic demonstration of how even Microsoft doesn’t look at the Feedback Hub anywhere near enough, because this Spam stays in the Hub for not just weeks, but months, and almost a year.

IF … and this is a big IF … Microsoft was really listening anywhere near attentively enough as it says it does, and that the feedback in the hub was divided adequately between different teams to examine and deal with … then this Spam would not exist.

Clearly something is very broken with the Feedback Hub in terms of how Microsoft responds to feedback (see next point) and looks at it … if they even do.

Let’s have a look at some of this spam so you can all see what I mean.

A great way to find spam posts is to search for Trump or Biden. It’s entertaining, and enough to make you cry with laughter and tears.

The above was posted 3 months ago. It’s not in anyway useful or actionable. Why is it even still there?

What’s worse about the above, is not only that it’s 3 months old, but that a Microsoft Engineer took the time to respond to it when it’s clearly Spam and not actionable.

This one above is perfect example of Feedback Hub Hell. Not only has it been there for 10 months, but it just shows that there’s no one is checking posts anywhere near enough.

This one has been there for a year! Whoever has the job to check the Apps/All Other Apps is clearly AWOL.

As clear as spam can be yet it’s still there after 2 months.

Clearly there is zero autodetection for swear words in the Feedback Hub. Not only that, but MS Engineers don’t seem to mind being insulted. This post is 8 months old.

Useful. But only as a sign that no-one is checking this section of the Feedback Hub.

Windows Server has left the Feedback Hub Building folks … about a year ago.

Proof not to use Feedback Hub in any emergency. No one will come to your rescue.

Conclusion: There’s little to no automatic spam detection in the Feedback Hub and manual monitoring is very suspect.

3. ONE-WAY

And herein lies the main problem with the Feedback Hub. I’d be fibbing if I said it was entirely one-way, but suffice to say, the vast majority of suggestions and problems you submit to the Feedback Hub will go without any official comment or acknowledgment. The default “We’ve got this!” message that the app gives you is like a kick in the teeth and means nothing, except that much like actually getting a kick in the face, it hurts. You know they’ve got it because you submitted it and can see it. But then what? It’s like tossing a twig into a stream and hoping it actually keeps going but knowing it probably won’t.

Out of the ~100 posts I’ve made in vain to the Feedback Hub over the last 6 years, a mere 15 have had an official response. It’s totally soul destroying. Why do I bother? There’s only so many times you can do something without any reward before you just simply give up. No one expects a personal response every time or even action from someone, but a sign perhaps that there is someone alive in the Feedback Hub HQ who can at least send some response, even if it’s a sentence, would be great. It would mean all the world and make a vast difference. It’s not as if Microsoft couldn’t do this, because they already do in other feedback departments. Yes, really.

I give you two examples; Microsoft Word and Microsoft Edge.

With Microsoft Edge, you can send feedback through the main menu, and I’ve done this a handful of times. Guess what? Every time I’ve done this, I’ve got a response! Yes, every time.

Example, 9^th March, I fed back a rather simple issue:

One day later, I got this:

In the space of 24 hours I felt valued. I knew someone was listening to me. They were going to keep me posted which is the total opposite of the Feedback Hub. Not only that, but what I reported was acknowledged as an issue and I’d helped to make Edge better. Ok, they already knew about the issue, but I found out that a future build of Edge had a fix in it. Likewise with Microsoft OneDrive, I submitted feedback on a problem I had and got a response the next day!

In a very surprising development too, in Microsoft Word I submitted an issue I had with comments and gave a suggestion for improvement. I got an email within 48 hours asking me for more information!

Microsoft is capable of very good feedback, and making their customers feel valued for contacting them, but the clear exception is the Feedback Hub which feels more like a trophy cabinet for failed suggestions and problems.

The day my love of being a Windows Insider died

The 27th of January 2017 was a significant day in my lifetime of being an Windows Insider. It was the day that my love of being an Insider died. The mojo has gone. When a new build comes out with new features and I cannot be asked to download it and check it out, you know something is seriously wrong. Much like the break up of any relationship, things start going wrong gradually but this isn’t no “It’s me, not you” excuse but a firm “It’s definitely you, and maybe a little of me”. As I drift apart from the insider programme, I expect that soon I’ll probably not even look out for new builds or bother reading what's in them. That still seems hard to believe but the last few builds I’ve resorted to watching videos of the new features rather than spending my own time exploring.

So, what’s gone wrong?

Well, I always knew that the primary perk of being an insider was getting to test out new Windows 10 features. However, there was secondary reason for me signing up to be an insider and one that quickly became an equal to getting new builds: feedback. Essentially us Insiders are glorified testers for Microsoft. We all know that. We’re Windows Fans who love the OS so much we’d happily get our hands on anything new and play with it. I too was very much blinded by the love of trying new builds for a long time, until the recent v1607 build. It was at this point in time that my eyes were opened wide on the lack of development in the feedback area by Microsoft. I wrote this post all about my issues with the feedback hub app http://reviewsofblah.blogspot.com/2016/07/windows-10-insider-hub-app-two-years-on.html at that time. After lapping up receiving builds and feeding back issues or suggestions for a long time, I lived in the belief that the insider programme would develop and the feedback hub would be improved. The insider programme was in it’s infancy early on, so things could only get better, right? Even when things dragged on and the one-way feedback via the app continued for ages, I was briefly renewed in my faith when the new feedback hub was born (combining insider hub with feedback hub) and I believed that Microsoft were really taking responding to feedback seriously.

Well, that last change to the hub app was a year ago now (yes, there have been minor revisions since) and the feedback is still very much one-way. Results of surveys and quests are never forthcoming. The VAST majority of feedback items are not responded to. The hub is like a brick wall where people insert their thoughts into slots in between the cracks and hear nothing back. Then those items are left there for years to come like some sort of landfill site. A hub is supposed to be a hive of social interaction, but the main insider interaction is on twitter, and not everyone wants to be there. So, alas, the hub is a dead-end of feedback, STILL, and unless you actually badger a Microsoft employee on twitter and get lucky, you might get actual help and feedback. That’s not how feedback or the hub should work in the insider programme.

I've had enough. It's not enough for me anymore to play with new toys, give my thoughts and hear absolutely nothing back in response. I'm wasting my time doing so. If I feedback, I hear nothing back. If I don't feedback, I'm also wasting my time. So, either way, I'm wasting my time, right?

I've never asked for much in terms of feedback. Just a simple pie chart of what responses people give to quests or those hub pop-up prompts would be something I could cling to as a reward to gauge how everyone else is thinking about features in Windows 10. But, we don't even get that. We get stupid achievement badges in the hub but even those have almost stopped recently. The closest we get to feedback at all from Microsoft is via odd mentions in the "What's new in this build" when apparently it's because of us that things like night light got created or something like that.

I've become far too cynical now about this insider experience. Whilst they are turning out builds, and lauding up the community atmosphere of throwing parties and conferences for insiders all over the world, the actual development of feedback for a Windows Insider has gone nowhere but backwards.

I'm fed up and I've had enough. No more feedback from me about new builds or my suggestions for changes. The hub is a disaster and there’s no sign of any time soon that it’s development will increase and give me something to look forward to and believe in.

I’ve been dismayed by the feedback system for too long and my tether has well and truly worn out. I can’t provide feedback anymore without feeling emotional and almost crying that I’m submitting it into the abyss. I want to feel valued but I’m just a number in a Insider machine where feedback means less to Microsoft than throwing glamorous conferences and parties for Insiders.

Surely things will change in the future? I’m not convinced anymore. The ironic thing is that the feedback system Microsoft used to use, UserVoice, was more responsive and two-directional than the hub system. It didn’t seem like it back then, but when you look at the hub, you see a system that’s no better than uservoice in terms of the user experience of feedback interaction. Microsoft have their telemetry being drained from our Insider devices and diagnostics via the Hub, so the desire for them to improve an aspect of the Insider Programme that provides little value to them and extra work (I.e. feedback to insiders) seems to be ultra low.

Well, it’s important to insiders and those who value the time they give to test new things and provide both suggestions and report problems. Who wants to talk to a brick wall? How would Microsoft feel if they released a new build and no one bothered to install it? Turn the table around and that’s the treatment us Insiders get in terms of any feedback to justify our hard work checking out Microsoft’s own hardwork.

I don’t feel valued anymore. The love of being an Insider has gone. At this moment in time I’m not sure there’s any hope I’ll get that love back. That saddens me. Does it sadden Microsoft?

Windows 10 Insider Hub App: Top 5 Most Annoying Issues

Windows 10 App

Insider Hub App

Top 5 Most Annoying Issues - Grr

The Oxford dictionary provides three definitions for the word "hub" of which the second one is highly likely to be the reason why Microsoft called this app such a word. It defines a hub as"The effective centre of an activity, region, or network" which will make any insider who has visited the hub laugh. 

In Microsoft-land, if they created a human being, their idea of a hub on the human body wouldn't be the heart or brain, but an area which gets about as much activity as an abandoned building ... in a wasteland ... in the middle of nowhere. Microsoft's idea of a hub on the body would be that hive of activity that is the belly button. We don't use it at all on a daily basis, with the only kind of any action it gets, is us clearing out fluff out, which if one thinks about it, is probably more interesting than the Insider Hub has ever been in the last year. 

This app is anything but the effective centre of the Insider network. It's almost as useful in Windows 10 as the Action Centre, which is saying something. It just sits there, and no insider can find any real valid use for it, other than being curious about if it's become useful since they last opened it.

The main reason insiders joined the insider programme, was for access to the latest builds to test and enjoy, yet even that kind of information doesn't come first via the Hub, but via Gabe Aul on twitter. You don't go looking at the hub for any latest information, because it'll be the year 2020 before you'll find anything first in the hub before it's been announced anywhere else. 

News about Windows 10 is best found quickly on technology websites, or Gabe Aul on twitter. If you've got a problem with Windows 10, the hive of supposedly Insider activity, the hub, is about as much use as a fork would be to eat soup with. The Insider Forum isn't linked at all to the hub, and unless you're even slightly geeky, you'd probably not even know there was a forum on the web to go to, or that Gabe Aul has a twitter feed, let alone who the chap actually was.

The Insider Hub just sums up what most Insiders might feel about their relationship with Microsoft; we're their poor cousin. They only come to us when they want something, and then we don't see them again for years, and have no idea what they did with what we gave them. 

There's not a lot to the hub app in the first place, but what there is there, is problematic ...

1. Announcements

Being a hub, you'd expect the announcement/news section of the app to be pouring with developments, yet aside from being updated with build releases, there's no other news to report that's of any interest ... so it seems. Even the build news, although dated correctly, rarely appears until a few days later. Like all good Windows 10 apps, you can't rely on it to function correctly. If it says no news, you'd think there was none, but apps in Windows 10 just don't perform like even an average app on Android, leaving you to guess if they are accurate or just not bothering to work.

If the Insider announcement feed came straight from the Windows 10 blog it'll be much more interesting, but instead we get a drip feed of build news, random items of relevance or irrelevance, and the news that all insiders would never ask for if we were tortured; Microsoft Employee Bios ...

I'm sure they are lovely people, but the information in them is marginally interesting, and almost like supplying us insiders with a cute cat of the day photo.

The Insider Hub news section should be rammed full of windows 10 information, yet it barely scratches the surface of what a news feed should contain.

The "news" section of the hub app has a filter so you can see all articles about known issues, yet there's only ever been one article defined as that type. You'd expect to know about all known issues at the touch of a dial as an Insider, given we are providing the most feedback, but no. 

The hub should be the first place for information on Windows 10 and insider news, but we all know that the juicy stuff is anywhere but in the hub.

2. Quests

The concept is great; get insiders to interact, learn about Windows 10 features, and provide direct feedback.

Sadly, this for the most part has been a rather unsatisfactory side of being an insider, becoming much more like a chore and a pain, much like an explorer.exe crash.

So, far, there's been about 49 quests since the insider programme started up around about October 2014, and the vast majority of quests are either dull, pointless, or behind the times. They also range in complexity from the simple, like opening an app, to the complex, like the equivalent of writing a C++ program to interact with NASA. Ok, not that complex, but the point here is that there's no consistency with the quests, and certainly no personalization. Quests often feel like something that was discussed in the AOB section of a Windows 10 Insider meeting, with someone saying "Yeah, guess we better do something" and then someone being forced to make something up.

Check out some of the most recent quests us Insiders have been tasked with:

We get asked to do things that we can't do (I can't see a Radio option in Groove), to things no one would want to do (use 3D Explorer App and create something of no practical use with rubbish instructions), to the simplistic of loading up an app and changing it to the dark theme!

What's a quest really is needs to be defined, because even Jason and his Golden Fleece wouldn't bother with these quests ... because what's the reward?

I'd assume some insiders have given up on the quests through being driven insane by what they've seen and had to do thus far. We do these some really stupid basic quests, give a rating between 1-5 and then provide a free text feedback comment. Great, yet more feedback going to Microsoft of which none of us have any idea what's being done with it. If we all said the 3D Object App was rubbish, or the dark theme horrendous, would they do something about it, or even listen? Would any of us know?

The idea of quests is good, but the payoff seems to be heavily weighted against insiders, not least with some of the rubbish and ridiculous quests we've been given and that there is no real incentive to perform them.

3. Alerts

A whole year with the Insider Hub App, and I can count the alerts (i.e. notifications in action centre) that I've had from this app on one hand. I'm not sure if that's the app's problem, the build, or just that it's a Windows 10 App, because all of us Insiders know by now that you can't really trust any app to send notifications reliably.

What's supposed to be in this section? Is it the notifications? If so, why? That's what the action centre is for, right?

If it's not for notifications, but alerts, then why has it not been used for a year?

4. Rewards

In insider land, a reward isn't some simplistic looking badge in the Hub App, but getting our hands on the latest build. We grew out of wearing badges when we left the scouts years ago. At least those badges had some relevance, like knowing we'd learn't how to tie a knot. Insider achievements are so basic and worthless, that one is surprised there's not a badge for logging into Windows ...

We got a badge because Microsoft released Windows 10. Great. Because it really felt like everything we fed back to them was listened to and formally addressed, right?

I'm a trendsetter because someone has upvoted a piece of my feedback by at least 10 votes! Great, so a few people agree with me, and what? I've started a revolution?

I'm a feedback phenom because I've submitted over 50 items of feedback, yet isn't that what we're supposed to be doing? I know Microsoft is ciphering telemetry data from us all the time, but wasn't part of being an Insider so that we feedback information? 50 items should be a drop in the ocean, compared to how much we should be letting Microsoft know about an OS that is big money for them.

The incentives for being an insider are low, and these badges really summarize it in graphic form. To celebrate Windows 10's release, Insiders were offered a discount at the Microsoft store, but only if you lived anywhere near one, of which most Insiders probably haven't even seen a Microsoft store, except for that icon in Windows 10 (and the discount wasn't for the app kind of store).

For all the data we're feeding back to Microsoft, directly and indirectly, it feels like a raw deal we get in return. We don't even know what is done with the data or how useful it was. Sure we get to test Windows 10 builds, but now everyone has Windows 10 (although always a slightly older build) even that doesn't feel like much of a reward anymore.

5. Hub isn't a community

Something needs to change going forward. It's been talked about and some ideas shown, but 4 months after Windows 10 was released, nothing has arrived. The feedback app has had only a few updates in a year but the hub has had none.

It's not the focal point that it should be for insider information. RSS feeds on Windows 10, the forum, and feedback app should be integrated into the hub, to make it feel more like a community. The hub feels more like the welcoming sign to somewhere which you only take any notice of the first time you visit somewhere.

It provides data to us on things we do, which is interesting, but it's hard to see some relevance in telling us anything when it doesn't appear that it means anything to Microsoft ...

So, we've provided all this feedback; great. How much of it was useful? How much of it was related to known issues? How much of it did you actually use and make changes from? Where is the feedback on our feedback?

We know we've given lots of feedback, but what any of it meant to Microsoft is unknown. Perhaps it meant very little. That's because it feels like, as we don't get an indication of it's usefulness, that aside from that odd mention in a build's release notes, it's the only time it's actually mentioned by Microsoft. Even then it apparently seems that Microsoft only value the top 3 or so things we feedback about because that's about as much as they ever let on about using our feedback.

And there's this ...

"Active" refering to having the computer turned on, not what we've actually done with the build, which could be just to run a screensaver all day. And what devices does it refer to?

Although we insiders understand that with tens of thousands of feedback items submitted, either via the app or from Microsoft dragging the data from the OS on our behalfs, that it would be very hard to provide personal feedback on every item, you'd think the quests part of the hub would be the ideal place to tell us something. After All, if Microsoft asked us to do a quest, there must be a reason, other than some microsoft interim having a laugh at our expense, right? The quests should be the ideal place for Microsoft to ask exactly what we think about a feature and provide our rating and feedback text . This we do, but to what end? We don't even get anything back on the quests ...

Great. I've done 49 quests, and all I get to show for it is the statistic above and maybe a 8-bit designed badge in the hub app. We should at the very least see a summary of how many people did the quest, their rating, selection of most common feedback text, and, MOST IMPORTANTLY, Microsoft's response to that quest data. BUT, we get nothing. It's like Jason and his argonauts going on that quest for the golden fleece and coming back with a printout that says he completed the task, but doesn't have any fleece to show for it.

So ...

In summary, the whole Insider experience had excitement oozing out of my mouth a year ago, and the enjoyment of using new builds has been largely just that ... enjoyable. For most insiders that might be enough, but it's not for those of us who place value on the time we take to use something and provide feedback. We need to know that what we're doing is worthwhile. We need to feel like we're included, and not just thrown some treats every so often in the form of new builds to lap up without any thought or reason behind our time spent using them.

Any insider who is in the IT industry with both feet will know that whatever they do, they need to know it's delivering results. The checkout counter assistant knows they are doing their job well, because people are coming by their till throughout the day, they see their expressions, and they hear their words ... and their boss isn't moaning at them. Us insiders are simply checking out builds in the same way, but it's like we have blindfolds on, because we have no idea how our customers feel about our performance.

It's time for Microsoft to step up to the plate with the Insider Programme, because thus far one feels more like an outsider than an insider. Perhaps "ranks" of insiders need to be created by Microsoft, where the most "basic" of insiders simply just play with builds and don't care what happens with their time, with an "expert" rank of insiders encouraged to use the forum, spend time on quests, talk to Microsoft and have interactions with Microsoft employees to understand and know that their feedback and issues are being listened to and being used to improve aspects of the OS.

With millions of people in the Insider Programme it should feel like one big family that's in constant contact with each other, and feels the love. Sadly, it all too often feels nothing like a family, but that we've all been squashed into individual rooms in the same hotel with no idea on what's going on in the bigger picture.

Microsoft, are we insiders, or outsiders?

Does our feedback mean anything to you?

If the answer to both is yes, and one assumes and hopes so, then it's time to make the insider programme mean something much more than it is, and for feedback to work both ways.